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Latham Turner's avatar

Thank you Jay for such a thoughtful and inspirational essay on the function of education. And thank you Josh for sharing Jay’s words.

I think I’ve felt much of this, although without the history of the educational system or the frameworks to understand what was happening. I didn’t have a “traditional” college experience, which I’m grateful for. I was a product of the Naval Academy (and right after 9/11 at that). I remember at the time wanting to study science because it seemed like the most foundational and valuable education I could pursue. That led me to Physics. But everyone had to learn a lot of engineering, even if they were an English or Political Science major. I am grateful I did as that degree opened up a lot of opportunities for me, but I wish my 19 year old self had seen a model of the humanities that was even more foundational than science was. I now believe that I would have been better served as a Navy officer with an education from St. John’s than I was by my physics degree from USNA. That is not a popular statement at my Alma mater, but I stand behind it.

I was definitely changed by the university, probably for the better. But I can’t remember a single teacher who did that for me. It was more the discipline, rigor, and leadership that I remember. It was the experience, not a teacher. I wonder if there had been more latitude to freely explore with different teachers outside of my major and maybe if the school could have attracted a different type of teacher if that would be different. But that is 40 year old me reflecting on my 20 year old self, and I fear I’m projecting a desire that wasn’t there as a kid. At the time, the only role models I had were scientists and military officers.

I also have young kids, and am trying to offer them something different. I would rather they develop the wisdom your friend did when he knew what progress really meant. It’s taken me these 40 years to see the truth underlying our world and the mindsets that it’s built on. I am trying to offer them a different model, one in which understanding human nature, knowing how to search for the divine, believing in the idea of mythology and kairos as essential to the human condition is alive for them. But at the same time, I worry that I might be ruining them in a society and an educational system that prizes ROI and devalues true understanding.

Jay, in response to your reply to Matthew about a lifelong educational system, I have long wondered how such a system could be created. Many of us are building our own experiences here on Substack, but I know there is more that can be done. And needs to be done. And it needs to be expanded beyond the western canon and into the eastern teachings and supported with opportunities that are affordable to both the students and the teachers. I recently took a few post-Bacc courses, and at $2k for a 10 week course, it gets hard to be a true lifelong student, at least through universities.

Thank you again for such a thought provoking essay. It clearly stuck with me, as I don’t often leave long comments like this.

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David Roberts's avatar

Thanks Jay for these memories with an emphasis on what your teachers gave to you and what you gave to your students. Does that virtuous cycle still exist? I've seen the influence of teachers in the lives of my three children, and my daughter was a teacher before she became a full time mother.

It's interesting to contemplate that at the same time there's a crisis in higher education that the divide between those with a college degree and those without continues to grow.

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