Thank you Jay for such a thoughtful and inspirational essay on the function of education. And thank you Josh for sharing Jay’s words.
I think I’ve felt much of this, although without the history of the educational system or the frameworks to understand what was happening. I didn’t have a “traditional” college experience, which I’m grateful for. I was a product of the Naval Academy (and right after 9/11 at that). I remember at the time wanting to study science because it seemed like the most foundational and valuable education I could pursue. That led me to Physics. But everyone had to learn a lot of engineering, even if they were an English or Political Science major. I am grateful I did as that degree opened up a lot of opportunities for me, but I wish my 19 year old self had seen a model of the humanities that was even more foundational than science was. I now believe that I would have been better served as a Navy officer with an education from St. John’s than I was by my physics degree from USNA. That is not a popular statement at my Alma mater, but I stand behind it.
I was definitely changed by the university, probably for the better. But I can’t remember a single teacher who did that for me. It was more the discipline, rigor, and leadership that I remember. It was the experience, not a teacher. I wonder if there had been more latitude to freely explore with different teachers outside of my major and maybe if the school could have attracted a different type of teacher if that would be different. But that is 40 year old me reflecting on my 20 year old self, and I fear I’m projecting a desire that wasn’t there as a kid. At the time, the only role models I had were scientists and military officers.
I also have young kids, and am trying to offer them something different. I would rather they develop the wisdom your friend did when he knew what progress really meant. It’s taken me these 40 years to see the truth underlying our world and the mindsets that it’s built on. I am trying to offer them a different model, one in which understanding human nature, knowing how to search for the divine, believing in the idea of mythology and kairos as essential to the human condition is alive for them. But at the same time, I worry that I might be ruining them in a society and an educational system that prizes ROI and devalues true understanding.
Jay, in response to your reply to Matthew about a lifelong educational system, I have long wondered how such a system could be created. Many of us are building our own experiences here on Substack, but I know there is more that can be done. And needs to be done. And it needs to be expanded beyond the western canon and into the eastern teachings and supported with opportunities that are affordable to both the students and the teachers. I recently took a few post-Bacc courses, and at $2k for a 10 week course, it gets hard to be a true lifelong student, at least through universities.
Thank you again for such a thought provoking essay. It clearly stuck with me, as I don’t often leave long comments like this.
Thanks Jay for these memories with an emphasis on what your teachers gave to you and what you gave to your students. Does that virtuous cycle still exist? I've seen the influence of teachers in the lives of my three children, and my daughter was a teacher before she became a full time mother.
It's interesting to contemplate that at the same time there's a crisis in higher education that the divide between those with a college degree and those without continues to grow.
Josh - thanks for hosting this guest essay with Jay. Lots of stuff to digest here.
Jay - sincere appreciation for sharing your experience with higher education and the educational system in general. My mother taught for 40+ years. Numerous aunts, uncles, cousins, and a sister are also teachers. I have been mentored and influenced by amazing educators throughout my life.
My experience with higher education was different than the traditional path. I did attend one year of college right out of high school but with little real direction and absolutely no money it didn't make sense to continue. Fast forward a decade and I am married with two kids and working full-time on active duty with the Navy. Recognizing that upward mobility was limited without a degree I enrolled in night classes. The Navy had a contract with Chapman University in Orange, CA and remote classes were offered right on base. I would rush home from work to help my wife with a few chores, eat dinner, head back to class for an hour, come home and help get the kids to bed, and then stay up working on homework until late into the night. It was rough but I was grateful for the opportunity. With a bit more direction and motivation this time around I managed to graduate at the top of my class. A few years later I did the same thing for my Masters. So other than that one year after high school I never got to experience the traditional college environment. A part of me wishes I had but I am grateful for the educators who worked late and helped us non-traditional students achieve our goals.
Now as a parent of college age children it is interesting to me to observe the nuances involved in higher education. My son, as a computer science major, has almost no liberal arts classes in his curriculum. I think in his freshman year he took an English course and a Philosophy course. As a sophomore he took a history course. Beyond that, everything is STEM and he is at a flagship university.
I think that it is a really hard problem to solve. We can't have a progressive and functional society without an understanding of the humanities. At the same time, majoring in French or Philosophy have very little real world utility. How do we find the balance to ensure future generations don't lose touch with essential knowledge and yet are still capable of handling the technological world they are inheriting.
Somewhat different but related problem is why are we as a society pushing everyone to college when that is obviously not the best option for every individual. Culturally we need to emphasize an increased value on trade education. My son's friend from high school went to welding school and is already making $80k/year as an underwater welder. No debt and a contributing member of society.
No easy solutions and I am somewhat just rambling but lots of great stuff to think about here.
"Only a humanities education teaches people to think about, care about, and propose answers to questions like that." ~ This beautiful sentence sums it up so nicely. For several years, I've been thinking that the answer might lie in partnerships with the professional schools, eg, a Business Management or Nursing major with a Humanities track. Some in the professions do understand the value of this kind of education for their students. I wonder if the idea of "the humanities" might gain some new life if we separate "the humanities *major*" from the courses and if universities could manage a funding formula that does not depend on major counts. So many if's. Once again, Jay, I'd like to address the issues you raise with a whole post, though I'm not sure I can do it before school is out. :-)
Thanks for such an evocative history of being both an inspiring teacher and an inspired student! One small editorial fix: it's Pigpen, not Linus, with the visible cloud around him.
Took early retirement im 2017, teaching is as much about reaping rewards from student learning as it is the paycheck. That is how the school systems have degraded their personnel for decades...
I’m the daughter of two teachers and would now be a retired professor of English if not for the unexpected pregnancy that derailed my plans of graduate school. Jay, I have witnessed, through my parents, the profound rewards you describe about the bond with students over time. And as a former student, I still hear the voices of teachers who pushed me to become a better reader, thinker and human. Your observations about the current state of university teaching sadden me, and surprise me more than they should. (I guess I wasn’t paying attention.) Wonderful cameos of your teachers, by the way. “Accept” or “understand?” Whart a difference a word makes.
Thank you Jay for such a thoughtful and inspirational essay on the function of education. And thank you Josh for sharing Jay’s words.
I think I’ve felt much of this, although without the history of the educational system or the frameworks to understand what was happening. I didn’t have a “traditional” college experience, which I’m grateful for. I was a product of the Naval Academy (and right after 9/11 at that). I remember at the time wanting to study science because it seemed like the most foundational and valuable education I could pursue. That led me to Physics. But everyone had to learn a lot of engineering, even if they were an English or Political Science major. I am grateful I did as that degree opened up a lot of opportunities for me, but I wish my 19 year old self had seen a model of the humanities that was even more foundational than science was. I now believe that I would have been better served as a Navy officer with an education from St. John’s than I was by my physics degree from USNA. That is not a popular statement at my Alma mater, but I stand behind it.
I was definitely changed by the university, probably for the better. But I can’t remember a single teacher who did that for me. It was more the discipline, rigor, and leadership that I remember. It was the experience, not a teacher. I wonder if there had been more latitude to freely explore with different teachers outside of my major and maybe if the school could have attracted a different type of teacher if that would be different. But that is 40 year old me reflecting on my 20 year old self, and I fear I’m projecting a desire that wasn’t there as a kid. At the time, the only role models I had were scientists and military officers.
I also have young kids, and am trying to offer them something different. I would rather they develop the wisdom your friend did when he knew what progress really meant. It’s taken me these 40 years to see the truth underlying our world and the mindsets that it’s built on. I am trying to offer them a different model, one in which understanding human nature, knowing how to search for the divine, believing in the idea of mythology and kairos as essential to the human condition is alive for them. But at the same time, I worry that I might be ruining them in a society and an educational system that prizes ROI and devalues true understanding.
Jay, in response to your reply to Matthew about a lifelong educational system, I have long wondered how such a system could be created. Many of us are building our own experiences here on Substack, but I know there is more that can be done. And needs to be done. And it needs to be expanded beyond the western canon and into the eastern teachings and supported with opportunities that are affordable to both the students and the teachers. I recently took a few post-Bacc courses, and at $2k for a 10 week course, it gets hard to be a true lifelong student, at least through universities.
Thank you again for such a thought provoking essay. It clearly stuck with me, as I don’t often leave long comments like this.
Thanks Jay for these memories with an emphasis on what your teachers gave to you and what you gave to your students. Does that virtuous cycle still exist? I've seen the influence of teachers in the lives of my three children, and my daughter was a teacher before she became a full time mother.
It's interesting to contemplate that at the same time there's a crisis in higher education that the divide between those with a college degree and those without continues to grow.
Josh - thanks for hosting this guest essay with Jay. Lots of stuff to digest here.
Jay - sincere appreciation for sharing your experience with higher education and the educational system in general. My mother taught for 40+ years. Numerous aunts, uncles, cousins, and a sister are also teachers. I have been mentored and influenced by amazing educators throughout my life.
My experience with higher education was different than the traditional path. I did attend one year of college right out of high school but with little real direction and absolutely no money it didn't make sense to continue. Fast forward a decade and I am married with two kids and working full-time on active duty with the Navy. Recognizing that upward mobility was limited without a degree I enrolled in night classes. The Navy had a contract with Chapman University in Orange, CA and remote classes were offered right on base. I would rush home from work to help my wife with a few chores, eat dinner, head back to class for an hour, come home and help get the kids to bed, and then stay up working on homework until late into the night. It was rough but I was grateful for the opportunity. With a bit more direction and motivation this time around I managed to graduate at the top of my class. A few years later I did the same thing for my Masters. So other than that one year after high school I never got to experience the traditional college environment. A part of me wishes I had but I am grateful for the educators who worked late and helped us non-traditional students achieve our goals.
Now as a parent of college age children it is interesting to me to observe the nuances involved in higher education. My son, as a computer science major, has almost no liberal arts classes in his curriculum. I think in his freshman year he took an English course and a Philosophy course. As a sophomore he took a history course. Beyond that, everything is STEM and he is at a flagship university.
I think that it is a really hard problem to solve. We can't have a progressive and functional society without an understanding of the humanities. At the same time, majoring in French or Philosophy have very little real world utility. How do we find the balance to ensure future generations don't lose touch with essential knowledge and yet are still capable of handling the technological world they are inheriting.
Somewhat different but related problem is why are we as a society pushing everyone to college when that is obviously not the best option for every individual. Culturally we need to emphasize an increased value on trade education. My son's friend from high school went to welding school and is already making $80k/year as an underwater welder. No debt and a contributing member of society.
No easy solutions and I am somewhat just rambling but lots of great stuff to think about here.
Wow and wow
I’m also going back to teaching in a few months after a few years away. Your lessons resonate deeply. Thanks for sharing, Jay!
"Only a humanities education teaches people to think about, care about, and propose answers to questions like that." ~ This beautiful sentence sums it up so nicely. For several years, I've been thinking that the answer might lie in partnerships with the professional schools, eg, a Business Management or Nursing major with a Humanities track. Some in the professions do understand the value of this kind of education for their students. I wonder if the idea of "the humanities" might gain some new life if we separate "the humanities *major*" from the courses and if universities could manage a funding formula that does not depend on major counts. So many if's. Once again, Jay, I'd like to address the issues you raise with a whole post, though I'm not sure I can do it before school is out. :-)
Thanks for such an evocative history of being both an inspiring teacher and an inspired student! One small editorial fix: it's Pigpen, not Linus, with the visible cloud around him.
Took early retirement im 2017, teaching is as much about reaping rewards from student learning as it is the paycheck. That is how the school systems have degraded their personnel for decades...
I’m the daughter of two teachers and would now be a retired professor of English if not for the unexpected pregnancy that derailed my plans of graduate school. Jay, I have witnessed, through my parents, the profound rewards you describe about the bond with students over time. And as a former student, I still hear the voices of teachers who pushed me to become a better reader, thinker and human. Your observations about the current state of university teaching sadden me, and surprise me more than they should. (I guess I wasn’t paying attention.) Wonderful cameos of your teachers, by the way. “Accept” or “understand?” Whart a difference a word makes.