7 Comments
User's avatar
Julie Gabrielli's avatar

Very thought-provoking, Joshua. I’ve long been curious how tied story structures are to their specific cultures. Not to say we can’t learn from them and enjoy them - Parasite did very well, after all. But does varying from the 3-act form run the risk of further thinning an already sparse readership? Acknowledging that plot is but one aspect. Great writing and compelling characters go a long way.

Expand full comment
Joshua Doležal's avatar

Hi Julie, Lien's closing argument is for publishers to open their minds to more variety in both form and content. It's hard to disagree. You're right that there are other elements that make the story. Willa Cather was always accused of being terrible at plot, and perhaps it says something about me that I prefer her two least plot driven books, Death Comes for the Archbishop and Shadows on the Rock, for their emphasis on image and scene. Reading those books is like sitting in an art gallery. Of course it would be a completely losing market strategy today.

Your comment took me back to graduate school, when I didn't care at all how a particular film did at the box office. How could that matter while watching Fellini or Kieslowski? Or even a film like "September." Craft used to drive the market, or at least part of it, and I think it's reasonable to keep demanding that. It's hard for me to imagine a Kieslowski emerging from Substack, but perhaps that is a lack of my own imagination.

For my part, thinking about form in this expanded way gives me a few more tools for clients and for myself in thinking about book mapping. Lien doesn't get into this too much, but I don't think borrowing elements of form is appropriation -- imitation or adaptation in that way still seems the highest form of respect.

Expand full comment
info henrylien.com's avatar

Hi, Joshua,

Thank you for the very thoughtful post and discussion about my book. I had a note to follow up regarding applications of some of these ideas to non-fiction. In fact, I recently did a performance at the beloved Joe’s Pub venue at the Public Theater in NY where I apply the four-act structure to a very personal, true story. If you’d like to take a look, I’d be honored. Links below:

https://www.facebook.com/HenryLienAuthor/videos/1776443109965920/?

https://youtu.be/wFPJHtjB9kY?si=MglvOkX8dDn25JSM

Thank you again for your kind interest in my book.

Warmly,

Henry

Expand full comment
Joshua Doležal's avatar

Henry, I can't believe I lost track of your comment! It's an honor that you took time to read the piece. I enjoyed your book and appreciate the additional resources you shared.

Expand full comment
info henrylien.com's avatar

I appreciated your thoughtful read and write-up, Joshua. I wish you great discovery in applying these ideas to your non-fiction.

Expand full comment
Emily Kaminsky's avatar

Thank you for this intro to other story structures. I think I gravitate toward the synthesis or integration of contradictory (or seemingly contradictory) themes that sounds to be part four of the 4 part structure. It feels like a refreshing change from the hero's journey. When we anticipate an oft repeated structure it becomes so less enjoyable ... I find myself rushing to the end.

Expand full comment
Joshua Doležal's avatar

Thank you, Emily! I am sorry I lost track of your comment months ago. Yes, I agree -- the surprise is what pulls us forward in storytelling.

Expand full comment