During my conversation with Kate Rogers earlier this week, I was struck by her ability to transfer a mentorship ethos from academe to industry. Kate’s work with research teams for Zillow echoes the sense of belonging in an academic department (a healthy one, at least). And her
Corporate training requires teaching-like skills. (Before grad school, I worked at a little early e-learning company in Silicon Valley, and I worked with corporate trainers.) That's usually out of HR or an HR contractor.
I didn't go that way, leveraging my teaching skills because I had edited before and through grad school. But I'm told by my manager that when I talk, listen--that I have something that makes people listen. (I'm guessing it's the way I support my statements and can be quite critical, pointing out things that others don't see--score one for critical thinking--but yes, it's not always appreciated.)
But being able to give presentations is valued. Yes, it's an offshoot of the communication skills, but it's still an important bullet point on the resume.
I am working a full-time editing job and teaching a class in the evening, so I have my foot in both camps. It's good because my mind needs something more to do that analyze all the problems at my work that I have no leverage to solve.
I went from teaching high school to becoming an editor at perhaps the biggest trade association at the time of my (first) divorce (two strike and you're out!) to support my children because teaching couldn't pay the bills for two children and almost no child support. What follows may be hard to believe, but I was promoted over and over again and became the highest ranking woman in the association in charge of public affairs. All this before I could do the work of my life: write and go back to teaching. So, for sure, something translated from teaching to corporate America.
A powerful story, Mary. It's that elusive "something" that I'm chasing here. I expect that your warmth, genuine care for others, and precision with language had something to do with it. What might you add to that list?
But I'm also mindful of the rub in your last line, which reminds me that business and teaching really aren't close kin. Business was not the work of your life, after all, at least in this formulation?
So kind, Joshua. I also became a trained problem-solving facilitator in the process--and worked across departments, bringing top executives and departments together for sessions I led. This gave me exposure across the entire association. Facilitating is a skill teachers learn if they're good at dialogue and don't become lecturers. Totally correct you are: business was not the work of my life though I threw my heart and soul into it until—I now realize—until I could afford to write full-time.
Lots to think about in these questions--let me just take one, no, a student and a customer are not interchangeable. As a colleague of mine noted, teaching and learning is not selling or buying a hammer--though it's often treated that way by students and the business-oriented. The relationship is transactional in business--I don't need to have a relationship with you in order to sell you a hammer or to buy a hammer but if I'm trying to teach you to learn how to learn or to care about mystery or to become a critical thinker, I can't just sell you that . . . does it mean those skills are not useful in business? I don't think so--at least when I buy something and believe the sales person cares about me, cares that I am pleased with what I buy, and maybe teaches me something along the way about the difference between carpet A and carpet B, I'm more likely to feel good about spending my money in that business. And if I'm the sales person and can cater my approach to each customer, convince them I want them to be happy, convince them I'll stand behind my product, teach them something in the process and form a relationship with them in all that interaction, those are abilities that translate to business. And while I wish business cared more about hiring people with those skills, it's true that many do not. They don't want a critical thinker because that might be disruptive--for example, my wife tries to convince her boss that helping their employees better understand the budgeting process will make them better employees and her boss thinks that her ability to do that, to share her competence as it were, means that "you scare me" and thus it doesn't happen does not mean that the skills aren't useful, just that not all (or perhaps many?) businesses are able to see the value of those skills.
Thoughtful commentary -- thanks. There was some element of persuasion involved in teaching the humanities. I've never liked to think of it in terms of sales, but many students entered my classes out of necessity, and our relationship began with an enthusiasm deficit that I strove to fill. But in that case what I was offering was not a tool with a predetermined outcome, but a kind of multitool whose uses would be determined by where my students' lives took them. Fairly easy to predict how a hammer will be used; not so much how the work of Willa Cather will impact someone's life down the road (although much of my undergraduate reading remains influential in my life now).
Your last sentence is especially helpful, because it's a good reminder not to generalize. I sometimes do that unfairly with phrases like "the corporatized university" and my projection of those patterns (which are somewhat generalizable) onto corporate jobs (which are far more diverse than universities). So there may well be businesses or firms that value precisely those aspects of teaching and writing that I do, and it's wise to remain open to that possibility.
You're also reminding me of the unfortunate tendency of many academics to think of every kind of work outside higher ed as Other. I have not probed the affinities between education and government service, but that is a sector where critical thinking and teaching are often required.
Management is the art of getting the best out of those you manage. I think to be an effective teacher you need to be able to read the room and understand what is going to motivate your students to succeed. I think that can be transferable to business.
As well, if you can write decently, you will often have a rare skill in the business world.
David, I always appreciate your thoughts. And I'm mindful that we're coming at this from opposite directions, although with some deep and abiding affinities (this feels like another possible email collaboration!). That is, we both faced a crucial decision at the beginning of our careers. You chose industry, and I chose academia. Now I'm weighing the path in the other direction, while you're embracing the writing life. Fascinating juxtapositions and convergences!
If I may probe your last point a bit, what kinds of writing might people like you and I do in business? Wouldn't that kind of writing be stripped of much of what gives us joy as essayists now? And if so, wouldn't that translation of skill be just as fraught as the translation of teaching that I'm struggling with? (I'm realizing that this kind of questioning is also probably *not relevant* in business -- overthinkitis, etc.)
The type of writing I'm thinking about is concise and non-discursive. We all strive to write essays that are structurally sound. Yes, the joys of controlled digressions and the occasional rhetorical flourish don't typically have a place in business writing (although i used to slip a few in).
I remember when a partner and good friend suddenly passed away, I was called upon to write the communication to investors in his funds. I needed to balance sympathy for the human tragedy with the message that the team my friend and partner had built was capable of continuing to invest well without him. That was a delicate balance.
I remember also as head of a school board, drafting a communication to the school community about the arrest of a teacher who had had an inappropriate relationship with a student. There were many different goals: that the school had acted swiftly and appropriately once this was uncovered, that our concern was for the well-being of the student, and that the processes the school had in place to try to prevent these incidents was appropriately rigorous notwithstanding.
Two examples that come to mind of challenging writing assignments, where writing chops were transferable.
You always provide me with so much to think about and process Joshua! I was at a conference recently and talked to some folks about navigating career pathways after graduate school. One of the things that occurred to me during that conversation is that I was never taught or encouraged to think about how my teaching skills translated to industry because, for my mentors and advisors, that would have “cheapened” the work we did. In other words, it’s because some of the limitations and concerns you identify in your article that made faculty in my department reluctant to encourage me to think about translating academic skills to industry. Having said that, I know they would have helped me if I asked. I think the real issue is that I felt guilty even having those conversations because the people I cared for and respected had invested so much time and energy in preparing me to be a scholar in my field. Dramatic as it sounds, it would have felt like a betrayal to call my advisor after graduation and tell him I was using my skills to do say, marketing, instead of teaching young English majors and producing scholarship in the field. I know you talk and write about this subject often (guilt and identity), but I keep coming back to it because that was always what prevented me from seriously engaging with the types of questions you’re offering here. Anyway, thank you for reading this long comment! 🤣
Thanks, Jacob! Yes, there is some guilt and shame involved in avoiding these conversations. Yet some of them are intractable questions about values. I think for me the sticking point is that corporate influences on my former institution made me feel that teaching, as I define(d) it, was not valued. It was almost as if the institution was insisting on the stripped-down version of teaching that industry seems to favor. If what gave me joy as a teacher is not what a business employer would be looking for, could I really translate those skills in a way that would feel authentic to me? I'm still a little stuck on that.
Best piece yet! Critical thinking is the Achilles heel of academics…because all that matters in business is competitive thinking…capitalism may not be a zero sum game, but there ARE losers…the many who never find their audience or find a good way to serve them or make money so they can survive…
Corporate training requires teaching-like skills. (Before grad school, I worked at a little early e-learning company in Silicon Valley, and I worked with corporate trainers.) That's usually out of HR or an HR contractor.
I didn't go that way, leveraging my teaching skills because I had edited before and through grad school. But I'm told by my manager that when I talk, listen--that I have something that makes people listen. (I'm guessing it's the way I support my statements and can be quite critical, pointing out things that others don't see--score one for critical thinking--but yes, it's not always appreciated.)
But being able to give presentations is valued. Yes, it's an offshoot of the communication skills, but it's still an important bullet point on the resume.
I am working a full-time editing job and teaching a class in the evening, so I have my foot in both camps. It's good because my mind needs something more to do that analyze all the problems at my work that I have no leverage to solve.
Interesting post, Josh! Thanks!
"Teaching-like skills" -- exactly right. Leave it to a poet to cut to the chase! Thanks, Joy.
I went from teaching high school to becoming an editor at perhaps the biggest trade association at the time of my (first) divorce (two strike and you're out!) to support my children because teaching couldn't pay the bills for two children and almost no child support. What follows may be hard to believe, but I was promoted over and over again and became the highest ranking woman in the association in charge of public affairs. All this before I could do the work of my life: write and go back to teaching. So, for sure, something translated from teaching to corporate America.
A powerful story, Mary. It's that elusive "something" that I'm chasing here. I expect that your warmth, genuine care for others, and precision with language had something to do with it. What might you add to that list?
But I'm also mindful of the rub in your last line, which reminds me that business and teaching really aren't close kin. Business was not the work of your life, after all, at least in this formulation?
So kind, Joshua. I also became a trained problem-solving facilitator in the process--and worked across departments, bringing top executives and departments together for sessions I led. This gave me exposure across the entire association. Facilitating is a skill teachers learn if they're good at dialogue and don't become lecturers. Totally correct you are: business was not the work of my life though I threw my heart and soul into it until—I now realize—until I could afford to write full-time.
Lots to think about in these questions--let me just take one, no, a student and a customer are not interchangeable. As a colleague of mine noted, teaching and learning is not selling or buying a hammer--though it's often treated that way by students and the business-oriented. The relationship is transactional in business--I don't need to have a relationship with you in order to sell you a hammer or to buy a hammer but if I'm trying to teach you to learn how to learn or to care about mystery or to become a critical thinker, I can't just sell you that . . . does it mean those skills are not useful in business? I don't think so--at least when I buy something and believe the sales person cares about me, cares that I am pleased with what I buy, and maybe teaches me something along the way about the difference between carpet A and carpet B, I'm more likely to feel good about spending my money in that business. And if I'm the sales person and can cater my approach to each customer, convince them I want them to be happy, convince them I'll stand behind my product, teach them something in the process and form a relationship with them in all that interaction, those are abilities that translate to business. And while I wish business cared more about hiring people with those skills, it's true that many do not. They don't want a critical thinker because that might be disruptive--for example, my wife tries to convince her boss that helping their employees better understand the budgeting process will make them better employees and her boss thinks that her ability to do that, to share her competence as it were, means that "you scare me" and thus it doesn't happen does not mean that the skills aren't useful, just that not all (or perhaps many?) businesses are able to see the value of those skills.
Thoughtful commentary -- thanks. There was some element of persuasion involved in teaching the humanities. I've never liked to think of it in terms of sales, but many students entered my classes out of necessity, and our relationship began with an enthusiasm deficit that I strove to fill. But in that case what I was offering was not a tool with a predetermined outcome, but a kind of multitool whose uses would be determined by where my students' lives took them. Fairly easy to predict how a hammer will be used; not so much how the work of Willa Cather will impact someone's life down the road (although much of my undergraduate reading remains influential in my life now).
Your last sentence is especially helpful, because it's a good reminder not to generalize. I sometimes do that unfairly with phrases like "the corporatized university" and my projection of those patterns (which are somewhat generalizable) onto corporate jobs (which are far more diverse than universities). So there may well be businesses or firms that value precisely those aspects of teaching and writing that I do, and it's wise to remain open to that possibility.
You're also reminding me of the unfortunate tendency of many academics to think of every kind of work outside higher ed as Other. I have not probed the affinities between education and government service, but that is a sector where critical thinking and teaching are often required.
Management is the art of getting the best out of those you manage. I think to be an effective teacher you need to be able to read the room and understand what is going to motivate your students to succeed. I think that can be transferable to business.
As well, if you can write decently, you will often have a rare skill in the business world.
Those are the two that come to mind first.
David, I always appreciate your thoughts. And I'm mindful that we're coming at this from opposite directions, although with some deep and abiding affinities (this feels like another possible email collaboration!). That is, we both faced a crucial decision at the beginning of our careers. You chose industry, and I chose academia. Now I'm weighing the path in the other direction, while you're embracing the writing life. Fascinating juxtapositions and convergences!
If I may probe your last point a bit, what kinds of writing might people like you and I do in business? Wouldn't that kind of writing be stripped of much of what gives us joy as essayists now? And if so, wouldn't that translation of skill be just as fraught as the translation of teaching that I'm struggling with? (I'm realizing that this kind of questioning is also probably *not relevant* in business -- overthinkitis, etc.)
The type of writing I'm thinking about is concise and non-discursive. We all strive to write essays that are structurally sound. Yes, the joys of controlled digressions and the occasional rhetorical flourish don't typically have a place in business writing (although i used to slip a few in).
I remember when a partner and good friend suddenly passed away, I was called upon to write the communication to investors in his funds. I needed to balance sympathy for the human tragedy with the message that the team my friend and partner had built was capable of continuing to invest well without him. That was a delicate balance.
I remember also as head of a school board, drafting a communication to the school community about the arrest of a teacher who had had an inappropriate relationship with a student. There were many different goals: that the school had acted swiftly and appropriately once this was uncovered, that our concern was for the well-being of the student, and that the processes the school had in place to try to prevent these incidents was appropriately rigorous notwithstanding.
Two examples that come to mind of challenging writing assignments, where writing chops were transferable.
You always provide me with so much to think about and process Joshua! I was at a conference recently and talked to some folks about navigating career pathways after graduate school. One of the things that occurred to me during that conversation is that I was never taught or encouraged to think about how my teaching skills translated to industry because, for my mentors and advisors, that would have “cheapened” the work we did. In other words, it’s because some of the limitations and concerns you identify in your article that made faculty in my department reluctant to encourage me to think about translating academic skills to industry. Having said that, I know they would have helped me if I asked. I think the real issue is that I felt guilty even having those conversations because the people I cared for and respected had invested so much time and energy in preparing me to be a scholar in my field. Dramatic as it sounds, it would have felt like a betrayal to call my advisor after graduation and tell him I was using my skills to do say, marketing, instead of teaching young English majors and producing scholarship in the field. I know you talk and write about this subject often (guilt and identity), but I keep coming back to it because that was always what prevented me from seriously engaging with the types of questions you’re offering here. Anyway, thank you for reading this long comment! 🤣
Thanks, Jacob! Yes, there is some guilt and shame involved in avoiding these conversations. Yet some of them are intractable questions about values. I think for me the sticking point is that corporate influences on my former institution made me feel that teaching, as I define(d) it, was not valued. It was almost as if the institution was insisting on the stripped-down version of teaching that industry seems to favor. If what gave me joy as a teacher is not what a business employer would be looking for, could I really translate those skills in a way that would feel authentic to me? I'm still a little stuck on that.
Best piece yet! Critical thinking is the Achilles heel of academics…because all that matters in business is competitive thinking…capitalism may not be a zero sum game, but there ARE losers…the many who never find their audience or find a good way to serve them or make money so they can survive…